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Boise Weekly

December 14, 2011 Features
Idaho's Epidemic of Fear: Vaccination Liberation Movement Takes a Shot at Public Health
The war over vaccinations heats up in North Idaho

A reprint from the BoiseWeekly...
by George Prentice
C O M M E N T S - - - 151-200
    [Note: the report section "x of y people like this" is not accurate as the numbers simply reflect the number who liked the comment at the time the comment was copied from the BoiseWeekly web site.]

    Comments 1-50  |   51-100  |   101-150  |   151-200  |   201-250  |   251-300  |   301-350  |   351-394  |   BW_article

  1. Comment:
    Mr. Gavin & Mr. Schmitt,

    I, for one, grow weary of your condescending, bloviating, and arrogant demeanor. I have read your posts and those of your more informed opponents here and am beginning to wonder if you are the one's wearing the tinfoil hats. If you had only a fraction of the intelligence you think you have, you would understand that it is people like yourselves and the pablum that you spew that are directly responsible for the growth in the anti-vaccine movement. In this respect I say: "Keep up the good work!"

    "I firmly believe that if the whole materia medica should be sunk to the bottom of the sea, it would be all the better for mankind and all the worse for the fishes." ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes, M.D., Professor of Medicine at Harvard
       report 20 likes, 1 dislike.
    Posted by Health Freedom on January 2, 2012 at 5:54 PM
  2. Comment:
    "Health Freedom", a commentor who for reasons best known to himself/herself refuses to post using their real name (or any name) like Mr. Gavin and I, wrote:

    "I, for one, grow weary of your condescending, bloviating, and arrogant demeanor."

    To this I say, good for you. Your reading comprehension skills are obviously far superior to most, if you find the facts posted by Mr. Gavin to be "arrogant", "bloviating", OR "condescending". If you pick up the sarcasm in the last sentence I will be extra surprised. As for my comments, I suppose I can't hide my thinly-veiled contempt for those who post pseudoscience and call it evidence, or cherrypick details in support of their pre-concieved notions. I admit. However I stand behind the facts and shun the trickery and intellectual dishonesty of your ilk.

    "I have read your posts and those of your more informed opponents here"

    You must have seen comments by someone I didn't notice, then.

    "and am beginning to wonder if you are the one's wearing the tinfoil hats."

    I'll answer that for you: no. I do not believe in 9/11 truth, "chemtrails", or vaccine conspiracies. Maybe you didn't understand what "tinfoil hats" actually refer to (noting your misspelling of the word "ones", I wouldn't be terribly surprised that you would be confused on this point). In short, the "tinfoil hatters" are the people who believe vast, shadowy government agencies are "out to get them" with fluoridated water, food additives, and vaccinations. People who acknowledge reality simply realize nothing is perfect, some things are harmful, but there are probably not massive underworld organizations secretly out to poison us (or microwave our brains with space weapons, which I believe is closer to the real etymology of the "tinfoil hat" euphemism). I hope that clears it up a bit for ya.

    "If you had only a fraction of the intelligence you think you have"

    I'm fairly sure I have at least a fraction of the intelligence I think I have. And more importantly I'm fairly sure Mr. Gavin, having posted fact after fact to effortlessly discredit the chaff that's been chucked at him constantly, without getting personal for the large part, has a fair fraction of the intelligence *you* think *you* have (though the fraction I'm thinking of would be written 2/1 or even 3/1, but I won't count on you to know what those fractions simplify to).

    "you would understand that it is people like yourselves and the pablum that you spew that are directly responsible for the growth in the anti-vaccine movement."

    No, the antivaxxers don't need a nemesis to drum up fear and paranoia among the misinformed and gullible parents of sick kids, or parents of newborns, spouting their filth about "poison in a needle" - they can do quite fine all by themselves. Our mission here is to hopefully prevent any new suckers from being made. The lies and illusions the antivaxxers invent can be awefully tempting and scary until someone sees a rational counterargument. I may not always be rational but I try to squeeze some in here and there.    report 2 likes, 15 dislikes.
    Posted by Mike Schmitt on January 2, 2012 at 8:13 PM
  3. Comment:
    Mr. Schmitt,

    I would take the time to have a battle of wits with ya but I am adverse to doing so with someone unarmed like yourself and since, in your mind, your *mission* is only to would be suckers I can deduce that you have nothing to add to me. You have pegged the needle on my cognitive dissonance meter and so I must bid you adieu.    report 19 likes, 2 dislikes.
    Posted by Health Freedom on January 2, 2012 at 9:39 PM
  4. Comment:
    To paraphrase H.L. Mencken, The "masses" have made their superstitions, if not 'official', then at least a problematic contender in public policy.

    Conspiracism and an egalitarian dislike and distrust of experts are nothing new. But until fairly recently the fringe had the decency to stay in the shadows where they had no expectation of serious consideration.    report 14 likes, 1 dislike.
    Posted by Charles on January 2, 2012 at 11:01 PM
  5. Comment:
    Charles,

    I like H.L. Mencken too. Here is one of my favorites: "I believe that all government is evil, and that trying to improve it is largely a waste of time. - H. L. Mencken

       report 15 likes, 0 dislikes .
    Posted by Robert on January 2, 2012 at 11:54 PM
  6. Comment:
    Shouldn't we be suspicious of a business that forces itself upon us, using threats, coercion and various punitive measures to insure consumption of its products? Why shouldn't we ask what’s wrong with these products that they have to be forced on people? Why shouldn't we be suspicious of a business that won’t accept responsibility for injuries incurred from the use of their products and tries to take away our inalienable right to have control over our health and that of our children? We wouldn’t tolerate this intrusiveness and irresponsibility in any other business. Why should we tolerate this from the medical-pharmaceutical “business”?

    Furthermore, people citing "statistics" rarely tell us about how they were determined and seldom reveal who funded the research. If the numbers were the result of a study or an experiment, we need to know the conditions of the study—the size, controls, duration and variables AS WELL AS the beliefs, motives and expectations of the researchers. If the subjects of the study were humans, what were their feelings, beliefs, habits, living conditions and their degree of health, or lack of it? What were the criteria used to determine these?

    An excellent book is - Trust Us, We're Experts! How Industry Manipulates Science and Gambles With Your Future by Sheldon Rampton and John Stauber. Bill Moyers had this to say about this revealing book, "If you want to know how the world wags and who's wagging it, here's your answer."

    In Miguel De Cervantes famous novel, Don Quixote said, "Facts, my dear Sancho, are the enemies of Truth."

    'Health Freedom' is rightfully disgusted by the egomaniacal arrogance of a couple posters here. Suggestion: If you can't respond civilly, go and blog elsewhere... like in your own state.    report 13 likes, 2 dislikes.
    Posted by ImmunizeWizely on January 3, 2012 at 1:30 AM
  7. Comment:
    Yes, Charles and Robert,

    H.L. Mencken is a favorite among many independent thinkers. We like this one:

    "The most dangerous man, to any government, is the man who is able to think things out for himself... Almost inevitably, he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane and intolerable."    report 14 likes, 2 dislikes.
    Posted by ImmunizeWizely on January 3, 2012 at 1:57 AM
  8. Comment:
    Neither side of this discussion has a monopoly on civility and clearly the topic of vaccination is an emotive one, which can stir strong emotions.

    It would be helpful if commentators could focus on presenting evidence in support of their positions, rather than resorting to ad hominem.    report 1 like, 3 dislikes.
    Posted by James Gavin on January 3, 2012 at 3:15 AM
  9. Comment:
    Mr. Gavin, Your evidence comes from biased sources just as you would say that our 'evidence' also comes from biased sources. For example, this article from Dr. Joseph Mercola's website you would likely discount as being an unreliable source despite the fact that Dr. Mercola has had 4 years more schooling than most MDs (he is an osteopath - D.O.) This article reveals why your references are not trustworthy for many of us.

    Pediatrician Exposes Vaccine Myths http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles… From the article:

    “I think that if you ask most of my colleagues where they get their information, they will say that they read it from the American Academy of Pediatrics, from the AMA, from the CDC, and in their journals.

    But I would like to challenge most of my colleagues to look through the studies themselves to actually see if the proper scientific studies were done using a proper study group and a proper control group.

    Were the ingredients in vaccines properly studied?

    Is there a difference between being exposed to a virus, bacteria, heavy metal or toxin through the air, food, your intestines and your skin, versus when it’s injected into your body?

    Have we really looked at what happens to vaccine materials once injected into a child? Is an antibody sufficient to provide protection for a child against disease?

    More and more studies are coming out to show that:

    * The proper studies haven’t been done
    * Antibodies are not the final way in which your body is protected
    * There is a difference between how children process material through air and food versus through injection
    * There are particles in vaccines that do accumulate in your body and cause impairments in your immune system
    * There are particles in the vaccines that get into your brain, and
    * There are foreign DNA particles that get into your body

    For many health professionals it is a shock to discover that there is such a lack of information on the safety and efficacy, and a mounting degree of information that actually raises suspicions about the safety and effectiveness of vaccines, and whether or not they have been properly studied.”

       report 13 likes, 2 dislikes.
    Posted by ImmunizeWizely on January 3, 2012 at 10:27 AM
  10. Comment:
    I have to get the flu shot every year because I get the flu every year - right after my flu shot! I can't wait till they come out with a vaccine that will make a person smarter!    report 14 likes, 1 dislike.
    Posted by Pincushion on January 3, 2012 at 11:25 AM
  11. Comment:
    You're absolutely correct, Joseph Mercola is not a reliable source of medical information:

    His site has received three warnings from the FDA.

    http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/Guidanc…

    http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementAction…

    http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementAction…

    [The most recent of which involved him being accused of violating federal law]

    ...

    Moreover, Joseph Mercola offers the usual anti-vaccination canards, all of which have been debunked, repeatedly.

    He even has his own page at the Skeptic's Dictionary:

    http://www.skepdic.com/mercola.html

    ...    report 1 like, 11 dislikes.
    Posted by James Gavin on January 3, 2012 at 12:26 PM
  12. Comment:
    Mr Gavin,

    All the pro-vaccination information that you have given here in this forum has been debunked more than repeatedly by the very best minds on the subject. I see that one of your go-to often resources is the FDA. This is almost laughable if it were not so sad. The FDA has lost all credibility with intelligent, objective, health researchers and is directly responsible for the deaths of millions of American citizens who blindly trusted in their conclusions. I need give no references or sources regarding this as the truth of what I speak is ubiquitous and only a blind man would need direction towards enlightenment on the matter.

    Your position here in only tenable to minds unaccustomed to critical thinking and plain old observation. Why don't you get your head out of the FDA, AMA, CDC publications and exercise your mind with a little alternative reading such as has been suggested to you i.e. Morris Beale ("Drug Story" and "Medical Mafia").

    Stop supporting a position and medical system that is directly responsible for the suffering & death of millions. You are in bad company with mass murderers sir.

    Vaccinations will go down in medical history alongside of leaching, bloodletting and mercury filled medications. For heaven's sake - take the red pill and WAKE UP!

       report 18 likes, 2 dislikes.
    Posted by Health Freedom on January 3, 2012 at 2:54 PM
  13. Comment:
    Health Freedom:

    As I pointed out previously to ImmunizeWizely, while you may not feel that you have to provide evidence to support your position, without evidence you offer nothing but assertion.

    Do you have any more up to date references, preferably written by experts in the field?

    Morris Bealle is not exactly a reliable source of medical information:

    From: http://www.ohsu.edu/xd/education/library/a…

    "Morris Bealle was a newspaper editor who got caught in the conflict between advertisers and the public good. This gave him a new slant on the idea of a "free press," a press that was free to print any advertisement that would pay his bills.

    Bealle took to attacking the AMA—and Morris Fishbein in particular—with some nasty insinuations, as his title illustrates. Beware the wrath of a quack, especially one like Bealle who is big on conspiracy theories while avoiding the specific concerns of critics: does this product provide a safe and effective solution as advertised?"

    ...    report 0 likes, 12 dislikes.
    Posted by James Gavin on January 3, 2012 at 4:04 PM
  14. Comment:
    Mr. Gavin,

    For your education, I would encourage you to do a little history check on the word "quack" and I would invite you to use it as it was originally intended - which is to describe people that you are fond of referencing. As for your ad hominem attacks on Morris Beale - you know not of what you speak. Instead of childishly going off to the Internet to find any ol' article that will back up your position - why don't you try a l'il critical thinking and read some of what Morris has to say and comment on that. Just because someone has detractors doesn't make their position untenable - come on...I know you can do better if you will simply take off the tinfoil hat and apply yourself!    report 16 likes, 2 dislikes.
    Posted by Health Freedom on January 3, 2012 at 4:26 PM
  15. Comment:
    In 1970 my mother was diagnosed with, and treated for, ovarian cancer. This experience resulted in the education of our family about orthodox vs alternative medical ideas.

    In the 1970s a well-known Idaho libertarian was responsible for bringing G. Edward Griffin, author of "World Without Cancer"; John Richardson, M.D., physician and author of "Laetrile Case Histories"; and Bruce Halstead, M.D. author, scientist, and world renowned toxicologist, to testify about laetrile before a legislative committee at the Capitol in Boise.

    I heard these three at that time and later, too. At a later time, my mother got to hear Harold Manner, Ph.D., chairman of the biology department at Loyola University and author of the book, "The Death of Cancer," lecture about his research of laetrile.

    In his book, "Laetrile Case Histories," Dr. John Richardson quotes Nicholas Von Hoffman: "Only science which has lost faith in itself must use power instead of reason to convince others."

    Further in his book, Dr. Richardson says, "Within the profession itself, peer review groups pass judgment against any physician who deviates from the norm of ACCEPTED practice, no matter how successful he may be in restoring the health of his patients. CONFORMITY, NOT RESULTS, IS THE GOAL.

    "Putting it mildly, it is an interesting world to live in if you are a doctor who happens to believe, as I do, that scientific truth is determined neither by majority vote nor governmental edict."

    Much further on in his book, Dr. Richardson writes that this philosophical struggle, "(T)o those who can perceive the ultimate truth,...is a struggle between ideologies: collectivism and paternalistic government versus individualism and the right of a free citizen to chose his own destiny."

    While these quotations were about orthodox vs alternative cancer treatments, they also apply to this struggle for human rights in this vaccination controversy.



       report 13 likes, 1 dislike.
    Posted by Idaho Spud on January 3, 2012 at 5:04 PM
  16. Comment:
    The vaccination controversy is a human rights issue!!!

    The pro-vaxers are free to use vaccines for themselves and their families; the anti-vaxers should be allowed the same freedom to make their own choices for themselves and their families. Anything less is medical nazism.

    Dr. Peter Leithart wrote, about another controversial issue but pertinent here, "(W)e must recognize that all science is based on unproven assumptions which are essentially religious in nature. (Side A and Side B) view the same evidence, observe with equal care, but come to opposite conclusions because they begin with opposite assumptions...."

    Dr. Leithart, the son of a physician, has a Ph.D. from Cambridge University.

    Our deficient education system is producing masses of people who know nothing about logic or critical thinking! "All thought must start somewhere, and that initial postulate is unproved by definition"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Long before I'd heard about Ingri Cassell or Vaccination Liberation, I had read articles by Dr. Victor Penzer and his friends. Dr. Penzer had medical and dental degress and was a survivor of Auschwitz concentration camp. (He said he received his nutrition degree at Auschwitz.) He was a staunch supporter of Twin Falls naturopath Dr. James Solomon.

    I think that he would have liked many of your statements, Vickie.

    In 1989 he wrote:

    "(M)edical sciences are not strict sciences. Being empirical in nature, medical research must rely on inductive rather than on deductive reasoning and for this reason alone it can only reveal probabilities, never certainties. Based on experiments, the outcome greatly depends on the experimenter's preconceived ideas and limitations of knowledge. Even when honest and at its best, erroneous or contradictory conclusions in medical research are quite common.

    "In addition, fraud and manipulation of data in medical research, so difficult to detect, has been documented, but only a small fraction of those ever came to public attention. Furthermore, medical research and education are financed directly or indirectly by the disease industry and therefore they serve the industrial interests primarily...."    report 15 likes, 1 dislike.
    Posted by Idaho Spud on January 3, 2012 at 5:34 PM
  17. Comment:
    MURDER BY INJECTION -- THE STORY OF THE MEDICAL CONSPIRACY AGAINST AMERICA

    http://www.american-buddha.com/lit.murderinject.4.htm    report 16 likes, 1 dislike.
    Posted by Health Freedom on January 3, 2012 at 5:54 PM
  18. Comment:
    In my last post, I quoted some 1989 comments by Dr. Victor Penzer. Here are some more of his 1989 comments.

    "Regrettably, most people, including doctors, don't realize that medical care and health care are not necessarily the same. In reality, HEALTH AND MEDICINE ARE NATURAL ECONOMIC ANTAGONISTS. IF PEOPLE WERE HEALTHY, MEDICINE WOULD BE OBSOLETE. (Emphasis added.)

    "Neither do most people realize that THERE IS NO DISEASE THAT IS CAUSED BY DEFICIENCY OF SYNTHETIC PHARMACEUTICALS. (Dr. Penzer put in this emphasis.)

    "Yet, this is what doctors almost always prescribe. Furthermore, any synthetic chemical which is not a natural ingredient of the human body is a potential toxin and thus stressful to the innate defense mechanism. Similarly, few people realize that surgery, the traumatic branch of medicine, never removes the cause of disease, only the result. As necessary and beneficial as surgery may be, it should be supplemented by the eradication of cause.

    "With the growing awareness of these demonstrable, rational facts some people, disenchanted with the miracles of modern medicine, search for alternatives. Such a growing trend represents an economic threat to the disease industry which, in turn, has been using all possible means to suppress natural healing."    report 12 likes, 1 dislike.
    Posted by Idaho Spud on January 3, 2012 at 6:59 PM
  19. Comment:
    Years ago, a congressional Office of Technology Assessment report stated that "It has been estimated that only 10 to 20 percent of all procedures currently used in medical practice have been shown to be efficacious by controlled trial."

    One courageous physician has noted, "One possible interpretation of this congressional document is that 80 to 90 percent of modern scientific medicine has no better scientific proof behind it than snake oil."

    While it's not scientific, it's certainly lucrative...........

    Several years ago, a very dear friend died in middle age. She told me that her orthodox medical care had exceeded a million dollars. More recently, another friend also died in middle age. A year before she died, she told me that her care, too, had already exceeded a million dollars.

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
       report 14 likes, 2 dislikes.
    Posted by Idaho Spud on January 3, 2012 at 8:55 PM
  20. Comment:
    Well, all you conspiracy theorists out there, get your tin hats on. Best be tin hats and not aluminum foil hats either, because in my personal opinion I think we've all just about had our fill of aluminum.

    Geoengineering Schemes Section of the ADC Website

    http://www.agriculturedefensecoalition.org…

    Many of us on this comment board as you can see have done their own due diligence in not only looking at scientific studies and have had some sort of personal experience but also have employed at least some logic and common sense to the problems facing families in the US and in fact around the world. I've certainly seen enough here to inspire myself to continue in the world of discovery when I personally realized that Mr. Gavin and Mikey here are of the same notion as those making medical decisions for our family members. The studies they provided in their links are what medical doctors are using to base their decisions on when treating you and your family. All I ask is that visitors actually read the "scientific evidence" being provided here by Mr. Gavin and Mikey and I believe you will come to the same conclusions and have the same questions that I do.

    I believe a few posts ago the idea of "chemtrails" was debunked (think that is the right word) I apologize, am a bit rushed here for a few days. Contrails, chemtrails, weather modification, geoengineering, funny clouds in the sky, what ever you want to call them (a rose by any other name is STILL a rose) the point is that "something is there" or is there? Now as was debunked by Mr. Gavin's scientific evidence I believe "they don't exist" right? Let's see, here is the debunk help page for con vs chem trails "cheat sheet" or "crib notes" which Mr. Gavin uses. Just to be fair we want to be sure readers get both sides of the story.

    Mr. Gavin's Evidence: http://contrailscience.com/how-to-debunk-c…

    Now, I refer you to the evidence provided by the Agriculture Defense Coalition (ADC). There are quite a few links to the evidence and will take some time reading, but is well worth it.

    ADC's Evidence: http://www.agriculturedefensecoalition.org…

    There are people helping to solve this major problem, but it may not be before humans are on toxic overload. (and just maybe they already are) Hence, the vaccination scheduling of children that may have had more exposure than others could be the straw that breaks the camels back so to speak for those little bodies. Just saying, it is people's right to know ALL sides of the story.

    http://www.agriculturedefensecoalition.org…

    Parent's have to make up their own minds, who better knows the child than the parent. I believe that the majority, and I mean maybe 99% at least of the majority love their children and would most certainly only want what is best for them. If a body is working at optimum levels I suppose it should be able to handle most anything except for maybe getting run over by a bus etc. But What If that body is already compromised with a weakened immune system? What if that body were not working quite at optimum levels for whatever reason? Look UP!    report 13 likes, 1 dislike.
    Posted by Vickie Barker on January 3, 2012 at 11:14 PM
  21. Comment:
    This child just died from a vaccine. Nicole Matten says her daughter Kaylynne got the flu shot, on Friday, December 2. That weekend, Kaylynne came down with, what she thought, was a stomach bug. She says things got worse Tuesday morning and Kaylynne was rushed to the hospital. "Her hands were kind of purple," said Matten. On the way to the hospital, Matten says her daughter stopped breathing.

    They said that Kaylynne has had flushots before. What they need to understand is that the chemicals and viruses will not only continue replicating, but their is also a negative cummulative effects of all Toxic chemicals and viruses that could have been the cause of her death. After all if the parents followed the CDC's vaccinations schedule then Kaylynne had well over 40 shots 140 vaccines. http://www.fox44now.com/story/16373343/bar…

    Please take this to heart and STOP Vaccinating your children - google this - Toxic Over Load Children Vaccinated to Extreme    report 11 likes, 2 dislikes.
    Posted by RobertAC on January 3, 2012 at 11:32 PM
  22. Comment:
    Great posts here - what an education! Wanted to let you all know that GlaxoSmithKline, the manufacturer of Cervarix (HPV) and many other dangerous vaccines (they use a new oil-based adjuvant in their newer vaccines - MPL), has been fined for the deaths of 14 babies in Argentina. You can read the story at this link -

    http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/8…    report 12 likes, 2 dislikes.
    Posted by ImmunizeWizely on January 4, 2012 at 1:11 AM
  23. Comment:
    Mr. Gavin,

    On Austin Bradford Hill's criteria and the correlation / causation issue, you referenced,

    http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/hill

    He says:

    "All scientific work is incomplete – whether it be observational or experimental. All scientific work is liable to be upset or modified by advancing knowledge. That does not confer upon us a freedom to ignore the knowledge we already have, or to postpone the action that it appears to demand at a given time."

    Following his list of characteristics, he says:

    "Here then are nine different viewpoints from all of which we should study association before we cry causation. What I do not believe – and this has been suggested – that we can usefully lay down some hard-and-fast rules of evidence that must be obeyed before we can accept cause and effect. None of my nine viewpoints can bring indisputable evidence for or against the cause-and-effect hypothesis and none can be required as a sine qua non. What they can do, with greater or less strength, is to help us to make up our minds on the fundamental question – is there any other way of explaining the set of facts before us, is there any other answer equally, or more, likely than cause and effect?"

    Tests of Significance

    "No formal tests of significance can answer those questions. Such tests can, and should, remind us of the effects that the play of chance can create, and they will instruct us in the likely magnitude of those effects. Beyond that they contribute nothing to the ‘proof’ of our hypothesis."

    For me, this essay seems somewhat open-ended.

    The mere fact that horrific adverse effects, and deaths from vaccines have been absolutely substantiated, lends support to this argument that correlation (does) mean causation.

    *********************************************************************** From roguemedic.com:

    Correlation doesn't imply causation, but it does waggle it's eyebrows suggestively and gesture furtively while mouthing 'look over there'

    Correlation is when things happen together. The whole purpose of the scientific method is to try to differentiate among the different correlations. Some will be purely coincidences. Some will be related, but some will not be the causes of what comes after them. And some will be causes.

       report 11 likes, 2 dislikes.
    Posted by ChristyAnn on January 4, 2012 at 2:22 AM
  24. Comment:
    At the Evaluating the Science Conference in 2011 for Vaccine Safety the following was presented for review.

    1. Luigi Franchi and Gabriel N��ez The NLRP3 Inflammasome is Critical for Alum-Mediated IL-1β Secretion but Dispensable for Adjuvant Activity Eur J Immunol. 2008 August ; 38(8): 2085–2089. doi:10.1002/eji.200838549.

    2. Fiona A. Sharpa, Darren Ruanea, Benjamin Claassa, et al. Uptake of particulate vaccine adjuvants by dendritic cells activates the NALP3 inflammasome. PNAS 106: 870-875.

    3. Stephanie C. Eisenbarth, Oscar R. et al. Crucial role for the Nalp3 inflammasome in the immunostimulatory properties of aluminium adjuvants. Nature 2008; doi: 10.1038/06939.

    4. Kempuraj D, et al. Mercury induces inflammatory mediatory release from human mast cells. J Neuroinflammation 2010; 7:20.

    5. Mackenzie IA. Activated microglia in dementia with Lewy bodies. Neurology. 2000;55:132-134.

    6. Simmons RD, Willenborg DO. Direct injection of cytokines into the spinal cord causes autoimmune encephalomyelitislike inflammation. J Neurol Sci.1990;100:37-42.

    7. Turowski RC, Triozzi PL. Central nervous system toxicities of cytokine therapy. In: Plotnikoff NP, Faith RE, Murgo AJ, Good RA, eds. Cytokines Stress and Immunity. Boca Raton: CRC Press; 1998:93-114. 8. Turowski RC, Triozzi PL. Central nervous system toxicities of cytokine therapy. In: Plotnikoff NP, Faith RE, Murgo AJ, Good RA, eds. Cytokines Stress and Immunity. Boca Raton: CRC Press; 1998:93-114.

    9. Santramaria A, Galvan-Arzate S, Lisy V, et al. Quinolinic acid induces oxidative stress in rat brain synaptosomes. Neuroreport. 2001;12: 871-874.

    10. Eastman CL, Urbanska E, Love A, Kristenssin K, Schwarcz R. Increased brain quinolinic acid production in mice infected with a hamster neurotropic measles virus. Exp Neurol.1994;125:119-124.

    11. Vezzani A, Forloni GL, Serafini R, Rizzi M, Samanin R. Neurodegenerative effects induced by chronic infusion of quinolinic acid in rat striatum and hippocampus. Eur J Neurosci.1991;3:40-46.

    12. Jyonouchi H, Sun S, Le H. Proinflammatory and regulatory cytokine production associated with innate and adaptive immune responses in children with autism spectrum disorders and developmental regression. J Neuroimmun.2001;20 (1-2):170-179.

    13. Munoz-Fernandez MA, Fresco M. The role of tumor necrosis factor, interleukin-6, interferon-gamma and inducible nitric oxide synthease in the development and pathology of the nervous system. Prog Neurobiol.1998;56:307-340.

    14. Kim WG, Mohney RP, Wilson B, Jeohn GH, Liu B, Hong JS. Regional difference in susceptibility to lipopolysaccharide-induced neurotoxicity in the rat brain: role of microglia. J Neurosci.2000;20:6309-6316. 15. Arimoto T, Bing G. Up-regulation of inducible nitric oxide synthease in the substantia nigra by lipopolyosaccharide causes microglial activation and neurodegeneration. Neurobiol Dis.2003;12:35-45.

    16. Gao H-M, Hong J-S, Zhang W, Liu B. Distinct role for microglia in rotenone-induced degeneration of dopaminergic neurons. J Neurosci.2002;22:782-790.

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    189. Martinez-Contreras, A.; Huerta, M.; Lopez-Perez, S.; Garcia- Estrada, J.; Luquin, S.; Beas Zarate, C. Astrocytic and microglia cells reactivity induced by neonatal administration of glutamate in cerebral cortex of the adult rats. J. Neurosci. Res., 2002, 67, 200- 10.

    190. Dubovicky, M.; Tokarev, D.; Skultetyova, I.; Jezova, D. Changes of exploratory behaviour and its habituation in rats neonatally treated with monosodium glutamate. Pharmacol. Biochem. Behav., 1997, 56, 565-9.

    191. Sager, P.R.; Aschner, M.; Rodier, P.M. Persistent, differential alterations in developing cerebellar cortex of male and female mice after methylmercury exposure. Brain Res.,1984, 314, 1-11.

    192. Choi, B.H. The effects of methylmercury on the developing brain. Prog. Neurobiol., 1989, 32, 447-70.

    193. Park, S.T.; Lim, K.T.; Chung, Y.T.; Kim, S.U. Methylmercury-induced neurotoxicity in cerebral neuron culture is blocked by antioxidants and NMDA receptor antagonists. Neurotoxicology, 1996, 17, 37-45.

    194. Miyamoto, K.; Nakanishi, H.; Moriguchi, S.; Fukuyama, N.; Eto, K.; Wakamiya, J.; Murao, K.; Arimura, K.; Osame, M. Involvement of enhanced sensitivity of N-methyl-D-aspartate receptors in vulnerability of developing cortical neurons to methylmercury neurotoxicity. Brain Res., 2001, 901, 252-8.

    195. Ming, X.; Stein, T.P.; Brimacombe, M.; Johnson,W.G.; Lambert, G.H.; Wagner, G.C. Increased excretion of a lipid peroxidation biomarker in autism. Prostaglandins Leukot. Essent. Fatty Acids, 2005, 73, 379-84.

    196. Brown, G.C.; Bal-Price, A. Inflammatory neurodegeneration mediated by nitric oxide, glutamate, and mitochondria. Mol. Neurobiol., 2003, 27, 325-55.

    197. Ou, Y.C.; White, C.C.; Krejsa, C.M.; Ponce, R.A.; Kavanagh, T.J.; Faustman, E.M. The role of intracellular glutathione in methylmercury- induced toxicity in embryonic neuronal cells. Neurotoxicology, 1999, 20, 793-804.

    198. Mundy, W.R.; Freudenrich, T.M.; Kodavanti, P.R. Aluminum potentiates glutamate-induced calcium accumulation and iron-induced oxygen free radical formation in primary neuronal cultures. Mol. Chem. Neuropathol., 1997, 32, 41-57.

    199. Lefebvre d'Hellencourt, C.; Montero-Menei, C.N.; Bernard, R.; Couez, D. Vitamin D3 inhibits proinflammatory cytokines and nitric oxide production by the EOC13 microglial cell line. J. Neurosci. Res., 2003, 71, 575-82.

    200. Nataf, S.; Garcion, E.; Darcy, F.; Chabannes, D.; Muller, J.Y.; Brachet, P. 1,25 Dihydroxyvitamin D3 exerts regional effects in the central nervous system during experimental allergic encephalomyelitis. J. Neuropathol. Exp. Neurol., 1996, 55, 904-14.

    201. Cantorna, M.T.; Hayes, C.E.; DeLuca, H.F. 1,25-Dihydroxyvitamin D3 reversibly blocks the progression of relapsing encephalomyelitis, a model of multiple sclerosis. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, 1996, 93, 7861-4.

    202. Wang, Y.; Chiang, Y.H.; Su, T.P.; Hayashi, T.; Morales, M.; Hoffer, B.J.; Lin, S.Z. Vitamin D(3) attenuates cortical infarction induced by middle cerebral arterial ligation in rats. Neuropharmacology, 2000, 39, 873-80.

    203. Blaylock, R.L. Phytonutrients and metabolic stimulants as protection against neurodegeneration and excitotoxicity. JAMA, 2000, 2, 30-41.

    204. Blanc EM, Keller JN, Fernandez S, Mattson MP. 4-hydroxynonenal, a lipid peroxidation product, impairs glutamate transport in cortical astrocytes. Glia 1998; 22: 149-60.

    205. Basu A, Krady JK, Levison SW. Interleukin-1: a master regulator of neuroinflammation. J Neurosci Res 2004; 78: 151-6.

    206. Blaylock R. Chronic microglial activation and excitotoxicity secondary to excessive immune stimulation: possible factors in Gulf War Syndrome and autism. J Am Phys Surg 2004; 9: 46-51. 207. Blaylock RL, Strunecka A. Immune-glutamatergic dysfunction as a central mechanism of the autism spectrum disorders. Curr Med Chem 2009; 16: 157-70.

    208. Shi L, Tu N, Patterson PH. Maternal influenza infection is likely to alter fetal brain development indirectly: the virus is not detected in the fetus. Int J Dev Neurosci 2005; 23: 299-305.

    209. Smith SE, Li J, Garbett K, Mirnics K, Patterson PH. Maternal immune activation alters fetal brain development through interleukin-6. J Neurosci 2007; 27: 10695-702.

    210. Gao HM, Liu B, Zhang W, Hong JS. Critical role of microglial NADPH oxidase-derived free radicals in the in vitro MPTP model of Parkinson's disease. FASEB J 2003; 17: 1954-6.

    211. Patterson PH. Maternal infection: window on neuroimmune interactions in fetal brain development and mental illness. Curr Opin Neurobiol 2002; 12: 115-8.

    212. Zuckerman L, Rehavi M, Nachman R, Weiner I. Immune activation during pregnancy in rats leads to a postpubertal emergence of disrupted latent inhibition, dopaminergic hyperfunction, and altered limbic morphology in the offspring: a novel neurodevelopmental model of schizophrenia. Neuropsychopharmacology 2003; 28: 1778-89.

    213. Meyer U, Nyffeler M, Engler A, et al. The time of prenatal immune challenge determines the specificity of inflammation-mediated brain and behavioral pathology. J Neurosci 2006; 26: 4752-62.

    214. Stys P, Li S. Glutamate-induced white matter injury: excitotoxicity without synapses. The Neuroscientists 2000; 6: 230-3.

    215. Melke J, Goubran Botros H, Chaste P, et al. Abnormal melatonin synthesis in autism spectrum disorders. Mol Psychiatry 2008; 13: 90- 8.

    216. Kanwar JR, Kanwar RK, Krissansen GW. Simultaneous neuroprotection and blockade of inflammation reverses autoimmune encephalomyelitis. Brain 2004; 127: 1313-31.

    217. Samland H, Huitron-Resendiz S, Masliah E, et al. Profound increase in sensitivity to glutamatergic- but not cholinergic agonist-induced seizures in transgenic mice with astrocyte production of IL-6. J Neurosci Res 2003; 73: 176-87.

    218. Tartaglia LA, Weber RF, Figari IS, et al. The two different receptors for tumor necrosis factor mediate distinct cellular responses. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 1991; 88: 9292-6.

    219. Leonoudakis D, Zhao P, Beattie EC. Rapid tumor necrosis factor alpha- induced exocytosis of glutamate receptor 2-lacking AMPA receptors to extrasynaptic plasma membrane potentiates excitotoxicity. J Neurosci 2008; 28: 2119-30.

    220. Zou JY, Crews FT. TNF alpha potentiates glutamate neurotoxicity by inhibiting glutamate uptake in organotypic brain slice cultures: neuroprotection by NF kappa B inhibition. Brain Res 2005; 1034: 11-24.

    221. Dantzer R, Kelley KW. Twenty years of research on cytokine- induced sickness behavior. Brain Behav Immun 2007; 21: 153-60.

    222. Allen JW, Mutkus LA, Aschner M. Mercuric chloride, but not methylmercury, inhibits glutamine synthetase activity in primary cultures of cortical astrocytes. Brain Res 2001; 891: 148-57.

    223. Schinder AF, Olson EC, Spitzer NC, Montal M. Mitochondrial dysfunction is a primary event in glutamate neurotoxicity. J Neurosci 1996; 16: 6125-33.

    224. Ashwood P, Van de Water J. A review of autism and the immune response. Clin Dev Immunol 2004; 11: 165-74.

    225. Blaylock R. The danger of excessive vaccination during brain development: the case for a link to autism spectrum disorders (ASD). Medical Veritas 2008; 5: 1727-41.    report 11 likes, 2 dislikes.
    Posted by Vickie Barker on January 4, 2012 at 2:38 AM
  25. Comment:
    Health Freedom:

    I note that you have chosen not to offer any new evidence to support your position.

    Given that you claimed:

    "All the pro-vaccination information that you have given here in this forum has been debunked more than repeatedly by the very best minds on the subject."

    It should be a simple matter for you to present some references.

    ...

    Idaho Spud:

    You've wandered off-piste a little referencing Laetrile, but I find it surprising that you condone the use of a treatment that can lead to cyanide toxicity (and which has not been shown to produce any substantive benefits):

    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM1…

    ...

    Vickie Barker:

    Having cited the CCSP SAP 2.3 report as evidence to support your belief in chemtrails, I would once again ask you to point out which parts of this document you feel are relevant.

    ...

    RobertAC:

    The story of Kaylynne Matten is indeed a sad one, but it is premature to suggest that the influenza vaccine caused her death:

    As the story points out, they are still waiting for the medical examiner's report to find out exactly what caused Kaylynne's death (a process which could take 2 to 3 months).

    And, as has already been pointed out, "too many, too soon" is a myth (due in part to the vast amount of antigens a child is exposed to as part of their normal life).

    Mark Crislip explains the detail here:

    http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.…

    ...

    ImmunizeWizely:

    GlaxoSmithKline were fined because they failed to get valid consent and did not follow the proper inclusion criteria.

    It was not fined because of the deaths that occured during the study.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/gla…

    Argentina's drug regulator, ANMAT, said in a statement Tuesday that "all of these patients had been given a placebo — that's to say, something that appeared to be the vaccine but that had no active ingredients. The vaccine is safe."

    This is from ANMAT's webpage:

    http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=es&tl=en&twu=1&u=http http://translate.googleusercontent.com/tra… ://www.anmat.gov.ar/comunicados/Comunicado_COMPASS.pdf&usg=ALkJrhh6_Vyk0nAJhSNvuwUW8LfZl9Hz_w

    Point 10:

    "It is expressly clarified that none of the deaths occurred during the study was linked to COMPAS vaccine administration."    report 0 likes, 11 dislikes.
    Posted by James Gavin on January 4, 2012 at 2:54 AM
  26. Comment:
    ChristyAnn:

    You said:

    "The mere fact that horrific adverse effects, and deaths from vaccines have been absolutely substantiated, lends support to this argument that correlation (does) mean causation."

    It would seem that you have missed the point of the article you quoted.

    As has been stated several times already - it is accepted that vaccines can cause adverse effects. Anaphylaxis, for example, is a recognised (though thankfully rare) complication of vaccination.

    However, this doesn't mean that all adverse event which occurs around the same time as a vaccination must be caused by the vaccine.    report 1 like, 12 dislikes.
    Posted by James Gavin on January 4, 2012 at 3:09 AM
  27. Comment:
    And thank you to Vickie Barker for that simply stupendous example of the Gish Gallop:

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop

    ...

    1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/P…

    Alum (aluminiun hydroxide) is the most widely used adjuvant in human vaccines, but the immune mechanisms that are activated by alum remain poorly understood. Alum has been recently shown to promote caspase-1 activation and IL-1β secretion but the cellular pathways involved remain elusive. Here we report that the release of IL-1β triggered by alum is abrogated in macrophages deficient in Nlrp3 and Asc but not Nlrc4. The requirement of the Nlrp3 inflammasome was specific for IL-1β in that secretion of TNF-α was independent of Nlrp3 or Asc. Consistently, processing of pro-caspase-1 induced by alum was abolished in macrophages lacking Nlrp3 or Asc. Unlike caspase-1 processing and IL-1β secretion triggered by LPS, alum-mediated activation of the inflammasome did not require exogenous ATP. Importantly, induction of IgG production against human serum albumin by alum was unimpaired in mice deficient in Nlrp3. These results indicate that alum induces IL-1β via the Nlrp3 inflammasome but this activity is dispensable for alum-mediated adjuvant activity.

    This is an interesting article, but perhaps Ms. Barker can explain what relevance it has to the discussion at hand?

    2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1913940…

    Many currently used and candidate vaccine adjuvants are particulate in nature, but their mechanism of action is not well understood. Here, we show that particulate adjuvants, including biodegradable poly(lactide-co-glycolide) (PLG) and polystyrene microparticles, dramatically enhance secretion of interleukin-1beta (IL-1beta) by dendritic cells (DCs). The ability of particulates to promote IL-1beta secretion and caspase 1 activation required particle uptake by DCs and NALP3. Uptake of microparticles induced lysosomal damage, whereas particle-mediated enhancement of IL-1beta secretion required phagosomal acidification and the lysosomal cysteine protease cathepsin B, suggesting a role for lysosomal damage in inflammasome activation. Although the presence of a Toll-like receptor (TLR) agonist was required to induce IL-1beta production in vitro, injection of the adjuvants in the absence of TLR agonists induced IL-1beta production at the injection site, indicating that endogenous factors can synergize with particulates to promote inflammasome activation. The enhancement of antigen-specific antibody production by PLG microparticles was independent of NALP3. However, the ability of PLG microparticles to promote antigen-specific IL-6 production by T cells and the recruitment and activation of a population of CD11b(+)Gr1(-) cells required NALP3. Our data demonstrate that uptake of microparticulate adjuvants by DCs activates the NALP3 inflammasome, and this contributes to their enhancing effects on innate and antigen-specific cellular immunity.

    Another interesting (though technical) article, but again, I am unsure how this strengthens Ms. Barker's argument.

    3. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v453/…

    Aluminium adjuvants, typically referred to as 'alum', are the most commonly used adjuvants in human and animal vaccines worldwide, yet the mechanism underlying the stimulation of the immune system by alum remains unknown. Toll-like receptors are critical in sensing infections and are therefore common targets of various adjuvants used in immunological studies. Although alum is known to induce the production of proinflammatory cytokines in vitro, it has been repeatedly demonstrated that alum does not require intact Toll-like receptor signalling to activate the immune system1, 2. Here we show that aluminium adjuvants activate an intracellular innate immune response system called the Nalp3 (also known as cryopyrin, CIAS1 or NLRP3) inflammasome. Production of the pro-inflammatory cytokines interleukin-1 and interleukin-18 by macrophages in response to alum in vitro required intact inflammasome signalling. Furthermore, in vivo, mice deficient in Nalp3, ASC (apoptosis-associated speck-like protein containing a caspase recruitment domain) or caspase-1 failed to mount a significant antibody response to an antigen administered with aluminium adjuvants, whereas the response to complete Freund's adjuvant remained intact. We identify the Nalp3 inflammasome as a crucial element in the adjuvant effect of aluminium adjuvants; in addition, we show that the innate inflammasome pathway can direct a humoral adaptive immune response. This is likely to affect how we design effective, but safe, adjuvants in the future.

    While these articles are fascinating, I wonder if Ms. Barker would like to highlight the studies that support her argument, rather than what appears to be a "copy and paste" of references without context?

    ...    report 1 like, 11 dislikes.
    Posted by James Gavin on January 4, 2012 at 3:35 AM
  28. Comment:
    The google translation link to ANMAT's website appears to be broken:

    http://www.anmat.gov.ar/comunicados/Comuni…    report 1 like, 5 dislikes.
    Posted by James Gavin on January 4, 2012 at 3:45 AM
  29. Comment:
    I don't really care much what they look like to you Mr. Gavin. I'm not your secretary, I suggest you look them up and read them, the ones that might interest you in the least.

    I do know enough about being a parent and a human to know if I want to get something done I need to be the one to do the work or to at least review it to see it is done properly. I appreciate these doctors, scientists and all those that prepared these documents. They are the ones that have already done the work, now it is only up to me if I want to learn or not. I chose to learn many years ago for various reasons of my own. You are free to do the same (or not).

    For me, I try to look at both sides of the coin, so to speak. I posted the list of resources for those that want to have a broader base of information from which to draw their own personal conclusion. I wish I'd had someone share available information with me before I made some life changing decisions in the past, but that's life right?

    Slow at getting through these posts sometimes, because I do check out the links you provide. Funny but now I do see why you were so quick to discredit some websites on here. Someone here on the comment board had made reference to information on a www.whale.to.com site. You were very quick to discredit the www.whale.to.com site. I was going through the site to see what sort of site it was and found this page: ( I believe Brian Deer actually has a post on this comment board somewhere) http://www.whale.to/a/keeping.html    report 10 likes, 1 dislike.
    Posted by Vickie Barker on January 4, 2012 at 4:11 AM
  30. Comment:
    Dr Russel Blaylock has reported that some of the Polio's vaccine genetic material injected will continue to be passed from generation to generation. So as an example 4 generations ago in your family line your ancestors received the Polio vaccine.

    Here we are 4 generations later if each generation continued to get the Polio vaccine this means that the Polio genetic material has now compounded. So in this same family line when the times comes and a female is now pregnant (who also received the Polio vaccine)the Fetus will now be infected with this Polio’s genetic material that has come through 4 generations.

    Now this Fetus immune system will be extremely compromised even before the child is born. As soon as the child is born they will then inject the child with Hep-B and VitaminK shot to further complicate the child’s immune system.

    Here are the Hep-B adverse reactions listed in the Hep-B package insert. Anaphylaxis hypersensitivity, Insomnia, Lymphadenopathy, Seizures, infantile spasms, Gillian- Barre Syndrome / Bell’s Palsy, Transverse myelitis, Multiple sclerosis, Arthritis / Arthralgia, Thrombocytopenia, S-J S, Erythema Multiform, Urticaria, Systemic Lupus erthematosus (SLE), Elevation of liver enzymes, Optic neuritis, Otitis Media (ear infection), Renal failure, Encephalitis, Eczema * NOTE: SIDS or Deaths reported to VEARS

    In 1983 – 10 injections contained 30 vaccines.
    In 2011 – 40 injections contain 120 vaccines.

    These vaccine ingredients that you are reading below may have been injected 40 times. Do you think your DNA will ever be the same?

    Toxic Vaccine Ingredients: Varicella virus, human diploid lung cells, Embryonic Guinea pig cell cultures, Beef heart infusion/fetal bovine serum, Ammonium Sulfate, Glutamate, Neomycin, Diphtheria, Tetanus Toxoids, & Acellular pertussis endotoxin, aluminum, formaldehyde, Thimerosal (mercury derivative), phenol / phenoxyethanol, polysorbate 80, dry natural latex rubber, Hepatitis B virus gene / yeast protein, Haemophilus influenza type b antigen, Neisseria meningitides serogroup B, Mumps virus / chick embryo culture, Rubella virus / human diploid lung cells, Human albumin, Sorbitol/sucrose, Glutamate, Neomycin, Diphtheria toxoid, Streptococcus pneumonia/ soy peptone broth/ yeast, Ammonium Sulfate, Glutamate, Polio virus/ monkey kidney cell, Carterpillar, Chinese Hamster Ovary

    * Never have they done studies of the cumulative effects of vaccine ingredients and the genetic materials is proven to pass to fetus. They keep adding more vaccine to the mix.
    When will they STOP. Will your child’s DNA ever be the same?

    To your health and success Robert

       report 12 likes, 1 dislike.
    Posted by RobertAC on January 4, 2012 at 4:39 AM
  31. Comment:
    Ms. Barker:

    You presented 225 references without explanation.

    I note that you are unwilling to explain which of these 225 references you believe support your position (or indeed why).

    As to John Scudimore's "whale.to" website, I really can't state the case any better than Special Master Denise Vowell:

    "When an expert places reliance on documents such as Pet. Ex. 13 (whale.to/vaccine/flu3.html), the weight that may be accorded that expert’s opinion is not enhanced."    report 1 of 4 [Not updated]people like this.
    Posted by James Gavin on January 4, 2012 at 4:48 AM
  32. Comment:
    Mr. Gavin,

    I do have better things to do with my time and can better serve in the capacity of helping others here in my community rather than posting back and forth on this little comment board. It really is taking up too much of my time and since I found some answers to my question on if and how vaccines may contribute to diabetes, (wish you would have had canned answers for that in your point and click debunking bag of tricks. You know, the http://metabunk.org/content/, I would have had my answers days ago.), I do have to get to my work at hand.

    I must say though some of your scientific studies and evidence you've presented here have been interesting to say the least. Take that site you refer to, the http://contrailscience.com/about/ when debunking chemtrails. Now here is a site built by a guy named Mick West that clearly explains that no one need worry about anything falling from the sky from airplanes. I know I'll sleep much better.

    Now for those of you that don't know, Mick, let me introduce you. Here's Mick, he's had private pilot training, and by golly he worked up to long distance solo certification and has actually flown a 150 miles by HIMSELF. He's been training out of the Santa Monica airport, so he knows the airspace round there so must be highly qualified in aerosol spraying, weather modification and other stuff like that. Now old Mick, he likes writing, and figuring stuff out. He's been writing about contrails and the "chemtrail" theory since 2007.

    Yes, old Mick, he's a good boy really, he's not a scientist or meteorologist, he's just a guy, another unpaid guy. You can read his full bio here: .http://contrailscience.com/about/

    Laughter is SUCH good medicine. I apologize Mr. Gavin for my arrogance, humor stupidity or what ever you may perceive it to be or want to label me this time. I am sleepy and maybe some things just strike me as being funny. Good night Mr. Gavin, I do hope you sleep well too.

    P.S. As to your request in your latest post:

    "Vickie Barker:

    Having cited the CCSP SAP 2.3 report as evidence to support your belief in chemtrails, I would once again ask you to point out which parts of this document you feel are relevant."

    The ENTIRE document is relevant Mr. Gavin.

       report 12 likes, 1 dislike.
    Posted by Vickie Barker on January 4, 2012 at 4:57 AM
  33. Comment:
    RobertAC:

    The "toxin gambit" and the "dna in vaccines gambit" have both been discussed already:

    Here is a website that collects information regarding many of the most common anti-vaccination misunderstandings/misrepresentations.

    http://vaxfax.me/    report 1 like, 11 dislikes.
    Posted by James Gavin on January 4, 2012 at 5:06 AM
  34. Comment:
    Vickie Barker:

    Presumably you have some evidence-based reasons for dismissing the information presented on the contrailscience.com website (after all, we wouldn't dismiss Mr Scudamore's views on vaccination merely because he is a pig farmer, would we?)

    ...

    You state that the entire SAP 2.3 document supports your belief that governments are spreading harmful chemicals from aircraft:

    The executive summary of the paper:

    "This report critically reviews current knowledge about global distributions and properties of atmospheric aerosols, as they relate to aerosol impacts on climate. It assesses possible next steps aimed at substantially reducing uncertainties in aerosol radiative forcing estimates. Current measurement techniques and modeling approaches are summarized, providing context. As a part of the Synthesis and Assessment Product in the Climate Change Science Program, this assessment builds upon recent related assessments, including the Fourth Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC AR4, 2007) and other Climate Change Science Program reports. The objectives of this report are (1) to promote a consensus about the knowledge base for climate change decision support, and (2) to provide a synthesis and integration of the current knowledge of the climate-relevant impacts of anthropogenic aerosols for policy makers, policy analysts, and general public, both within and outside the U.S government and worldwide."

    This document does not discuss the release of chemicals from aircraft.

    Instead it is discussing:

    "Atmospheric aerosols are suspensions of solid and/or liquid particles in air. Aerosols are ubiquitous in air and are often observable as dust, smoke, and haze. Both natural and human processes contribute to aerosol concentrations. On a global basis, aerosol mass derives predominantly from natural sources, mainly sea salt and dust. However, anthropogenic (manmade) aerosols, arising primarily from a variety of combustion sources, can dominate in and downwind of highly populated and industrialized regions, and in areas of intense agricultural burning."

    It is therefore difficult to understand why you consider the report to be evidence of chemtrails. Perhaps you could clarify?    report 0 likes, 10 dislikes.
    Posted by James Gavin on January 4, 2012 at 5:25 AM
  35. Comment:
    Mr. Gavin,

    Thank you for providing me with yet another fine example of the Dunning–Kruger effect!

    For those here that have never heard this term, allow me to explain...

    From Wikipedia:

    "The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled people make poor decisions and reach erroneous conclusions, but their incompetence denies them the metacognitive ability to recognize their mistakes. The unskilled therefore suffer from illusory superiority, rating their ability as above average, much higher than it actually is, while the highly skilled underrate their own abilities, suffering from illusory inferiority.

    Actual competence may weaken self-confidence, as competent individuals may falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. As Kruger and Dunning conclude, "the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others" (p. 1127). The effect is about paradoxical defects in cognitive ability, both in oneself and as one compares oneself to others.

    The hypothesized phenomenon was tested in a series of experiments performed by Justin Kruger and David Dunning, both then of Cornell University. Kruger and Dunning noted earlier studies suggesting that ignorance of standards of performance is behind a great deal of incompetence. This pattern was seen in studies of skills as diverse as reading comprehension, operating a motor vehicle, and playing chess or tennis.

    Kruger and Dunning proposed that, for a given skill, incompetent people will:

    1. tend to overestimate their own level of skill;
    2. fail to recognize genuine skill in others;
    3. fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy;
    4. recognize and acknowledge their own previous lack of skill, if they can be trained to substantially improve."

    David Dunning, a Cornell professor of social psychology, was perusing the 1996 World Almanac. In a section called Offbeat News Stories he found a tantalizingly brief account of a series of bank robberies committed in Pittsburgh the previous year. From there, it was an easy matter to track the case to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, specifically to an article by Michael A. Fuoco:

    ARREST IN BANK ROBBERY,
    SUSPECT’S TV PICTURE SPURS TIPS

    At 5 feet 6 inches and about 270 pounds, bank robbery suspect McArthur Wheeler isn’t the type of person who fades into the woodwork. So it was no surprise that he was recognized by informants, who tipped detectives to his whereabouts after his picture was telecast Wednesday night during the Pittsburgh Crime Stoppers Inc. segment of the 11 o’clock news.

    At 12:10 a.m. yesterday, less than an hour after the broadcast, he was arrested at 202 S. Fairmont St., Lincoln-Lemington. Wheeler, 45, of Versailles Street, McKeesport, was wanted in [connection with] bank robberies on Jan. 6 at the Fidelity Savings Bank in Brighton Heights and at the Mellon Bank in Swissvale. In both robberies, police said, Wheeler was accompanied by Clifton Earl Johnson, 43, who was arrested Jan. 12.

    Wheeler had walked into two Pittsburgh banks and attempted to rob them in broad daylight. What made the case peculiar is that he made no visible attempt at disguise. The surveillance tapes were key to his arrest. There he is with a gun, standing in front of a teller demanding money. Yet, when arrested, Wheeler was completely disbelieving. “But I wore the juice,” he said. Apparently, he was under the deeply misguided impression that rubbing one’s face with lemon juice rendered it invisible to video cameras.

    In a follow-up article, Fuoco spoke to several Pittsburgh police detectives who had been involved in Wheeler’s arrest. Commander Ronald Freeman assured Fuoco that Wheeler had not gone into “this thing” blindly but had performed a variety of tests prior to the robbery. Sergeant Wally Long provided additional details — “although Wheeler reported the lemon juice was burning his face and his eyes, and he was having trouble (seeing) and had to squint, he had tested the theory, and it seemed to work.” He had snapped a Polaroid picture of himself and wasn’t anywhere to be found in the image. It was like a version of Where’s Waldo with no Waldo. Long tried to come up with an explanation of why there was no image on the Polaroid. He came up with three possibilities:

    (a) the film was bad;

    (b) Wheeler hadn’t adjusted the camera correctly; or

    (c) Wheeler had pointed the camera away from his face at the critical moment when he snapped the photo.

    As Dunning read through the article, a thought washed over him, an epiphany. If Wheeler was too stupid to be a bank robber, perhaps he was also too stupid to know that he was too stupid to be a bank robber — that is, his stupidity protected him from an awareness of his own stupidity.

    Dunning wondered whether it was possible to measure one’s self-assessed level of competence against something a little more objective — say, actual competence. Within weeks, he and his graduate student, Justin Kruger, had organized a program of research. Their paper, “Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties of Recognizing One’s Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-assessments,” was published in 1999.

    Dunning and Kruger argued in their paper, “When people are incompetent in the strategies they adopt to achieve success and satisfaction, they suffer a dual burden: Not only do they reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the ability to realize it. Instead, like Mr. Wheeler, they are left with the erroneous impression they are doing just fine.”

    It became known as the Dunning-Kruger Effect — our incompetence masks our ability to recognize our incompetence.

    Dunning and Kruger were awarded the 2000 Ig Nobel Prize in Psychology for their report, "Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments

    This l'il bit of Psychology, along with an understanding of another bit of psychology known as "cognitive dissonance", will go a long way to helping people here understand why it is that Mr. Gavin and those like him just don't get it and indeed it is not entirely their fault - as it is simply impossible for them to do so.

    Thank you for the object lesson Mr. Gavin!

    In short, people, you are merely wasting your time presenting your research, facts and evidence to people like Mr. Gavin because such people who are convinced against their will -- are of the same opinion still.



       report 16 likes, 1 dislike.
    Posted by Health Freedom on January 4, 2012 at 9:00 AM
  36. Comment:
    I note that Health Freedom has, once again, chosen not to share the evidence that debunks every piece of pro-vaccination information I've provided.

       report 1 like, 9 dislikes.
    Posted by James Gavin on January 4, 2012 at 9:37 AM
  37. Comment:
    CDC, doctors push unproven vaccine 'cocooning' scheme hatched from pseudoscientific quackery

    http://www.naturalnews.com/034561_cocooning_vaccinations_family_members.html

    "It is mind-boggling to think that many vaccine advocates support vaccination concepts like cocooning or "herd immunity" on the false basis that they are rooted in sound science, when they are really nothing more than fairy tale myths. And yet these same folks are quick to malign anyone who questions or opposes such vaccination nonsense, accusing them of ignoring and denying science."    report 16 likes, 1 dislike.
    Posted by Health Freedom on January 4, 2012 at 9:45 AM
  38. Comment:
    Mr. Gavin,

    I note that you don't understand why I am not providing you with the incontrovertible, indisputable, and unarguable evidence and facts from my 30+ years of research on those issues you are contending with here. Your arguments here evince that you only have obtained a less than cursory understanding of the subject matter. I invite you to read my last post here and if you still don't "get it" - I understand.

    Sir, you simply are incapable of handling the truth that I am capable of presenting so I will not waste my time or yours as you have apparently already wasted enough of your own time as well as that of others here.

    You also have pegged the needle on my cognitive dissonance meter and so I must bid you adieu!    report 16 likes, 1 dislike.
    Posted by Health Freedom on January 4, 2012 at 10:04 AM
  39. Comment:
    The following is from an article entitled: "Think Outside The Box: Fluid Intelligence And The Ability To Question Your Own Beliefs"

    "To change the world you have got to start from yourself. If you can't or you are unwilling to question and change your own assumptions and beliefs, then you should not expect the rest of the world to be so open to your passionate crusades.

    Fluid intelligence has little to do with IQ or "book" intelligence. Fluid intelligence is "the ability to step outside of our beliefs and consider information which does not fit into our previously accepted view of reality."

    Given the level of social, cultural and media conditioning we have all unconsciously received, this is a information-computing trait of your brain that would be worth cultivating for mere strategic reasons. If you can't step outside your own computing box or you can't question the very assumptions that determine the way your perceive life all around you, how can you ever expect to make change happen?

    Fluid intelligence is all about not getting stuck with one set of ideas for life. Maintaining in good health the flexibility of your reasoning and mental computing system, today is as critical as periodically changing the oil in your car engine.

    Questioning reality, being critical of mainstream media reporting and news, asking deeper and uncomfortable questions about the truth why of some of our major problems can only lead you to know more and to be able to cope with more.

    Taking reality for granted, as a given objective "thing" sitting out there, is the equivalent if signing now your testament to life and your surrender to realize yourself, as a true participant, in the wonderful game of life going on on this planet.

    Cultivating, understanding and nurturing open-mindedness is the greatest safeguard to the very threats and possible disasters we are running into head on at this very time. The enemy is us."    report 15 likes, 1 dislike.
    Posted by Health Freedom on January 4, 2012 at 10:39 AM
  40. Comment:
    Fluid Intelligence

    by Fred Burks and the WantToKnow Team

    "In exploring personal and global transformation, it is important to talk about the concept of fluid intelligence in relation to the ability to grow and expand our awareness.

    Fluid intelligence has little to do with IQ or "book" intelligence.

    It is rather the ability to step outside of our beliefs and consider information which does not fit into our previously accepted view of reality.

    Your deepest beliefs and conceptions about life and the world are to some degree conditioned by your childhood experiences, your education, mass media, and various other external influences.

    An individual's level of fluid intelligence can be determined based on the degree to which he or she is able to let go of previously held conceptions on encountering reliable information or experiences which show these conceptions to be mistaken or overly simplistic.

    At the other end of the spectrum from fluid intelligence is static intelligence.

    When those with a high degree of static intelligence encounter information which seriously questions the established paradigm, they attempt to discredit the new information using laws and principles previously agreed upon under the old paradigm. If they fail at this, the new information is then deemed not worthy of study and discarded. At worst, the new evidence is actively attacked as being irrational or unscientific, even though it may be easily verified.

    Scientists with a high degree of fluid intelligence who are attracted to study matters outside the current paradigm are often labeled kooks or wacky by those operating with static intelligence. Yet history shows us that it is often these "kooky" scientists who go on to make the most astonishing discoveries which pave the way for entire new areas of study which were once considered nonsense. Einstein, Galileo, and Pasteur were all ridiculed at times by adherents to the old paradigm of their day for their amazing discoveries which ushered in entire new branches of knowledge.

    All of us are sometimes resistant to letting go of old beliefs, while at other times we are excited to explore new ways of thinking and being.

    Static intelligence and fluid intelligence are but two ends of a continuum, and each of us may shift to varying points on that continuum over time.

    In recent years, many key pioneers have been successful in operating within the modern scientific paradigm with a very high degree of fluid intelligence. These courageous individuals have used accepted scientific principles and careful research to challenge old paradigm beliefs.

    Below are a few shining examples of this pioneering group:

    Stanford University's neuropsychologist Karl Pribram and his in-depth studies of the holographic qualities of consciousness

    University of Connecticut Psychologist Kenneth Ring who completed breakthrough studies of near-death experiences.

    Dr. Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ (see his excellent paper and web site) of Stanford Research Institute in their copious studies of remote viewing and nonlocality.

    UCLA's Valerie Hunt in her systematic studies of human energy fields and measurable psychic phenomena.

    The pioneering cell biology research of Dr. Bruce Lipton showing that contrary to popular belief genes do not determine life, but rather our perception of the environment controls gene activity.

    Princeton's PEAR Laboratory (now closed) which established the ability of consciousness to interact with physical matter.

    Robert Monroe, founder of the Monroe Institute which teaches methods to achieve out of body experiences and remote viewing. (See his landmark book Far Journeys.)

    The many pioneers of quantum physics who are finding that for deeper understanding of our world, it may be impossible to separate the physical world from consciousness..."

       report 16 likes, 2 dislikes.
    Posted by Health Freedom on January 4, 2012 at 10:45 AM
  41. Comment:
    New Medical Journal Review: Vaccine Injury is a Documented Cause of Autism

    http://www.ageofautism.com/2011/02/new-medical-journal-review-vaccine-injury-is-a-documented-cause-of-autism.html

       report 15 likes, 2 dislikes.
    Posted by Health Freedom on January 4, 2012 at 12:25 PM
  42. Comment:
    For those of you that want to do your own research relative to some of the issues presented here, simply go to the following url and begin your search:

    https://startpage.com

    Here are some suggested terms that will help you understand and become aware of the world we live in:

    "FDA corruption"
    "medical corruption"
    "vaccine injury"
    "vaccine profits"
    "vaccine harm"
    "vaccine scam"
    "dangers of vaccines"
    "Big Pharma"
    "death by medicine"
    "chemtrails"
    "geoengineering"
    "human experimentation"
    "cancer profits"
    "pharmaceutical profits"
    "bad medicine"
    "prescription drug deaths"



       report 14 likes, 2 dislikes.
    Posted by Robert on January 4, 2012 at 12:39 PM
  43. Comment:
    A Film by Robert Kane Pappas

    Robert Kane Pappas' "Orwell Rolls in His Grave" critiques the fourth estate (journalism), once the bastion of American democracy. Asking whether America has entered an Orwellian world of doublespeak where outright lies can pass for the truth, Pappas explores what the media doesn't like to talk about: itself.

    Are Americans being given the information a democracy needs to survive or have they been electronically lobotomized? Has the frenzy for media consolidation led to a dangerous irony where in an era of more news sources the majority of the population has actually become less informed?

    http://www.forbiddenknowledgetv.com/videos/independent-film/orwell-rolls-in-his-grave---full-documentary.html    report 15 likes, 2 dislikes.
    Posted by Robert on January 4, 2012 at 12:51 PM
  44. Comment:
    Health Freedom:

    You make some more assertions (including the statement that you have researched the issue for 30 years), but despite your use of words like: "incontrovertible, indisputable, and unarguable evidence and facts" - you have still to provide the evidence to support your beliefs.

    ...

    It is incorrect to suggest that cocooning hasn't been researched:

    The initial findings:

    http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/52/2…

    "Although practical and logistical barriers exist, Tdap cocooning was well accepted by and successfully implemented in a high-risk population by using standing orders and providing vaccinations on-site."

    However, research from Canada pointed out the problems implementing such a procedure:

    http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/earl…

    "In the context of low pertussis incidence, the parental cocoon program is inefficient and resource intensive for the prevention of serious outcomes in early infancy. Regions contemplating the cocoon program should consider the NNV based on local epidemiology."

    NNV = number needed to vaccinate in order to prevent a single death.

    The impact of cocooning is discussed in these slides from the working group:

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/recs/acip/down…

    - never not recommend cocooning in all contacts of infants
    - cocooning is an insufficient national strategy to prevent pertussis mortality and morbidity in newborn infants
    - to prevent neonatal pertussis, should the timing of the mother's Tdap vaccination change from post partum to during pregnancy?

    The latest guidelines (including the rationale for their implementation) is here:

    http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/m…

    ...

    Herd immunity (contrary to the claims of those who advise againt vaccination) is a well-recognised phenomena (as discussed in more detail here):

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/P…

    Perhaps the most important use of herd immunity has been in the eradication of smallpox:

    http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/smallpox/train…

    The mathematics are discussed in more detail here:

    http://www.mathepi.com/maindir/herd.html

    ...

    Helen Ratajczak summarises her review of the theories she recorded thus:

    "Integrating the data presented here, a hypothesis is that autism is the result of genetic defects, with the contributory effect of advancing age of the parents, and/or inflammation of the brain. The inflammation could be caused by a defective placenta, an immature blood- brain barrier, the immune response of the mother to a viral or bacterial infection, a premature birth, encephalitis in the child after birth, or a toxic environment. Also, intracellular pathogens could induce an immune response, resulting in neuro-inflammation, autoimmune reactions, brain injury, and autism."

    Her conclusion was:

    "Autism has been documented to be caused by genetic defects and/or inflammation of the brain. The inflammation could be caused by a wide variety of environmental toxicants, infections and co-morbidities in individuals genetically prone to the developmental disorder."

    No data is offered to show that this inflammation is caused by vaccines and, as has been mentioned several times already, the data that has been collected does not support the idea that vaccines cause autism.

    http://www.iom.edu/Reports/2011/Adverse-Ef…    report 1 like, 11 dislikes.
    Posted by James Gavin on January 4, 2012 at 2:12 PM
  45. Comment:
    Mr. Gavin,

    I grow weary of your junk science, lack of critical thinking skills, reliance on mainstream medical propaganda and total lack of understanding on the subject of vaccines! Why don't you find something more productive to do with your time other than copying and pasting so-called authoritarian resources that make you feel good about your own position. I for one am light years away from any kind of being impressed. Do you have any thoughts of your own on the subject at hand?... Any personal experiences or observations related to vaccines other than manifesting the truth that vaccines along with other environmental toxins really can dumb down a population?    report 15 likes, 1 dislike .
    Posted by Health Freedom on January 4, 2012 at 3:04 PM
  46. Comment:
    I've read this article in full. And I've read a decent portion of the comments but not all 194 of them. For what it's worth, I'm going to throw my 2 cents in.

    George, Christine, Dana, and Cynthia (and all other health "officials" and politicians in Idaho): WAKE UP.

    I would ask all of you to recall the pertussis outbreak of 1997 which originated in the Panhandle Health District and spilled over into Eastern Washington. It was precisely at that time I found myself with a 4 month old son, living outside of Spokane, desperately trying to make the decision of whether or not to vaccinate him. He had received a hepatitis B vaccine at birth and at one month of age and had become severely jaundiced both times, JUST LIKE HIS SISTER who had died on July 17th, 1995 at the age of 5 months and 14 days of age. I held off on getting his two month series because on top of suspecting that vaccinations killed my daughter, I had a son who was CLEARLY not tolerating the toxic poison being injected into his tiny body for a disease which was of absolutely no direct threat to him.

    The pertussis outbreak was all over the news. Northern Idaho had a vaccination rate of roughly 66% for pertussis at the time. The MSM blamed non-vaccinators for the outbreak. I was scared to death. My son attended daycare a few hours per week while I finished my degree. I was convinced he would die from whooping cough because I had not vaccinated him. I showed up at his daycare one day only to have to turn around and go home because of a sign on the door which told me there were pertussis and chickenpox cases at the daycare!!!!

    I continued to research. I continued to breastfeed. And then, I started calling the media and the health department. Eventually, I got the statistics for the pertussis outbreak and a report from the CDC who came and studied the outbreak. As it turned out, all confirmed cases with the exception of ONE were in vaccinated individuals. The CDC stated the following, in writing: "The myth of vaccine refusal played no part in this outbreak".

    Despite my fear, which was 100% media induced, I refrained from allowing my son to receive his 2 or 4 month vaccines, nor did I finish the Hep B series or allow a DPT vaccine. I continued to pull every possible journal article related to the subject of vaccination or any disease that we use them for from the shelves of the library at Eastern Washington University. If not available, I ordered them through interlibrary loan. Ultimately, I ended up never vaccinated my son again, for anything. He is over 15 years old now. And far healthier and ahead of his peers on every level.

    He was the ONLY child at that daycare not to succumb to pertussis or chickenpox. And he was the ONLY child not vaccinated for pertussis (too young for chickenpox). He did contract both diseases later, age 8 and 10 respectively, and guess what?!?!?!? Though inconvenient, neither were a big deal. But then we eat healthy and my son had the benefit of good nutrition, no junk food, limited toxins, etc, on his side. I watched fully vaccinated children at his school become so ill from chickenpox that they were hospitalized. But there's no study out there to determine the overall health of the two groups; unvaccinated vs vaccinated. I for one don't really need one, I've seen enough in 15 years to know what the result would be. I just wish it could be done so that people like George, Christine, Dana, and Cynthia could stop getting their undergarments in a knot over exemption rates and rights.

    And get over your "young people don't remember measles" crap. Guess what? My grandmother does and she's still alive. So does one of my very close friends. Too bad for you fearmongers that people like my grandmother are alive and able to tell me that they had measles, mumps, etc, and that it was really no big deal for them. My grandmother had measles and pertussis AT THE SAME TIME. Can measles kill you? Of course it can! If you're vitamin A deficient, eat a garbage diet, aren't treated properly, etc. But guess what? Not only can a vaccine kill you, but worse yet, I'm convinced they are RUINING the health of this country on scale so massive it's just unbelievable. And all right in front of our faces. My grandmother is one of 7. All of her siblings went through every major childhood illness and all are still alive. I myself remember having mumps at about age 6 or 7. Though uncomfortable, no big deal. On the other hand, I remember very vividly a smallpox vaccine nearly killing me at age 8. It was given to me at school, little did they know I'd already had one and shouldn't have received a second one.

    Dana says "we're going to end up having something bad happen around here". Sweetie pie, it already has. Look around. What's the autism, ADD, ADHD, diabetes, or any other neurodevelopmental disorder or chronic immune dysfunction rate in your district? What was it 20 or 30 years ago? You said yourself you've got some "sick kids" there "everything from mild asthma to diabetes". Good God have mercy on my soul, why on earth do you think that is???? It is so painful to sit here and read that kind of idiocy when I know what I do about REAL HEALTH.

    Save yourself the time of trying to analyze the "why" of vaccine exmemption rates increasing. The answer is simple! It's called THE TRUTH. People are finding out about it and by golly gee wilikers, they are opting not to screw their kids up with neurotoxic poison! By and large, I'm not sure if you are aware of this, people don't like to lose children and they don't like their kids to be chronically ill or developmentally disabled or delayed. You can bury your head in the sand all you want and tell yourself that what they say about Wakefield is true, but REALITY (do you know what that is?) is still very apparent to parents who are the ones with everything at stake; THEIR CHILDREN'S HEALTH. For every anti-Wakefield study published, there's evidence in support of him. And this is not about MMR! Nor is it about mercury. Vaccines, by their very nature and design, ruin health. This is corroborated by PhD's in immunology who know this but are scared to speak up because they know it will be the end of their career.

    OK, I'll say something nice now. Thank you to whomever came up with the title because I appreciate this being called exactly what it is. A war. It is a war. And it's one I'll fight to my death. It's only right given that my daughter gave her life for it. And thank you George for giving Ingri Cassel a place in the story. You might want to spend a little more time with her. Well, that is if you are interested in TRUTH. Do you really think it is fun for any of us who have to carry this burden and actually stand and fight for our rights? Do you think we would be doing any of this if vaccines were truly safe, necessary, or effective? Believe me, I wish I could just wake up and find out that I've been wrong all along and I could go back to normal life and not have to feel like Pharma is one step away from succeeding in killing or maiming my one and only living child. I know exemptions are in jeopardy, in every state, and it's media fear and hype that will ensure we ultimately lose our rights.    report 11 likes, 2 dislikes .
    Posted by noshots4me on January 4, 2012 at 3:09 PM
  47. Comment:
    Health Freedom:

    I will continue to offer a counterpoint to your evidence-free assertions for as long as you keep making them.

    I have already explained why personal experience is not a reliable way to assess complex epidemiological data - perhaps you could begin your rebuttal by addressing that issue?    report 1 like, 12 dislikes.
    Posted by James Gavin on January 4, 2012 at 3:19 PM
  48. Comment:
    Mr. Gavin,

    I have no more desire to engage you than I would to take a blind man on a sight-seeing tour. You are simply not ready to be unplugged from the Matrix. I leave you to your folly which is apparent to all those that are aware and awake.    report 16 likes, 2 dislikes.
    Posted by Health Freedom on January 4, 2012 at 4:02 PM
  49. Comment:
    Mr. Gavin,

    You regularly assess that I miss the points of sites, articles, essays, etc. that you reference. Have I truly missed the points? Or is it that you may be uncomfortable with my interpretations and it's just a 'gambit' hoping I second guess myself, and detract from independent thinking? Hmmm.....I see a pattern here.

    Regardless, it seems we have come to an impasse, at least on the matter of correlation / causation.

    Yes, it has been stated many times that vaccines can cause adverse effects.

    You said: "Anaphylaxis, for example, is a recognised (though thankfully rare) complication of vaccination."

    I say: There are several (very common), yet potentially very serious, even life threatening and life ending adverse effects as well. This fact seems to keep being swept under the rug......by some.    report 13 likes, 2 dislikes .
    Posted by ChristyAnn on January 4, 2012 at 5:15 PM
  50. Comment:
    These Merck Documents Revealed in Court Evidence, show The Influence of the Pharmaceutical Industry.

    Among them, you will find Merck's list of doctors to Neutralize, Discredit or Destroy. (Critics of the safety and effectiveness of Merck's drugs.)

    http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/200…    report 13 likes, 1 dislike.
    Posted by ChristyAnn on January 4, 2012 at 5:38 PM

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